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carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

ietf.org/blog/towards-a-net-ze

So the IETF, the people who handle internet standards and stuff, are thinking about how to offset the carbon emissions from people flying to their meetings.

It'd be really neat if the *Internet* Engineering Task Force had some sort of thing to communicate without flying to other places. Like, a global communication network of some sort. Someone should go build that.

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily sometimes i think zeus gave prometheus the eagle out of mercy, to provide an occasional distraction from watching the consequences of his actions

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@carcinopithecus seriously considering writing this comment in a corner of my whiteboard in a fancy font

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily post pics if you do!

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily the first time when we heck up the climate in enough to die out. I've heard that the ancient Maya has also died of starvation because of their own actions like deforestation

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily also with the increased level of hacking and surveillance of electronic communication maybe there will be a time when we have to return to Whispering information into each other's ears. Also seeing let's say Tokyo on webcam walkthrough is not the same as being there sorry

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@Nika2022 I don't think that's how hacking works.

Also, is the point of an IETF meeting to see Tokyo or to do things related to the development and publication of internet standards?

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily just read up on how the European Union is planning to end end-to-end encryption and then think about having your business decisions made via emails and zoom meetings just saying

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@Nika2022 Okay, I'll humor you.

You are now in charge of an evil government. You have backdoors in every encryption scheme ever. You read decrypted TLS packets from political dissidents for fun, and in every organization of at least two people, one of them is a spy working for you.

And you decide to turn your evil powers toward... the IETF, who publishes everything they do in public already, and who has no actual authority beyond making recommendations for the people who actually do the work.

What, exactly, is your evil goal here?

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily that does not solve the problem but thank you

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@Nika2022 So to summarize:
- you think there should be top-secret in-person IETF meetings, because the internet can't be trusted, but
- you can't think of a single problem top-secret in-person IETF meetings would actually solve?

Come on, even the RFID-tags-are-government-tracking people have an answer for this one. (It doesn't *work*, because RFID tags do not work like that, but they at least have an *internally* consistent story.)

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily I do understand that we can replace some business travel but going overly overboard is not going to put people on board either that's just my opinion

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@Nika2022 @emily everyone is entitled to an opinion, but are you qualified in this subject to.form an informed opinion? Else it'd just be spreading misinformation if we all pretend to know about stuff we dont know about

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@Aman9das are you asking me or @Nika2022?

I would consider myself knowledgeable in computer security generally, and on the things that are possible and practical for hackers and governments with various amounts of resources at their disposal.

It is my Official Professional Opinion that using massive government surveillance networks to steal information that is already public would be a waste of resources.

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily @Nika2022 It was just general good advise to streamline the debate.. I don't know much about this event or organization to judge anyone here

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily it ain't about the internet; it's about doing rich people stuff with donation money

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@minervissa @emily
I mean seriously, I have yet to see another standards governing body that is s as open to participation as the IETF.
There’s no membership fee or anything.

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@Vyen @minervissa I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive? They can be open to the public (which is great, more standards orgs should do it) while also spending donations on things that don't need to happen at all. It's a bit hyperbolic and reductive, sure, but it's not entirely inaccurate.

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily @minervissa
I was just wondering about this ‚rich people‘ argument. While the rich are going on fucking cruiseships and building penisrockets and stuff, exploiting the workforce wherever they can.

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@Vyen @emily okay you're thinking of the rich rich people

penis rockets are only for rich rich people

poor rich people have big get-togethers and fly everywhere

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@Vyen @emily if you donate to my trust fund, i will build a Penis Rocket For The People

the balls will have Marx's face painted on them

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily@sparkly.uni.horse you mean like...

this isn't global?

i guess that means you all must be Canadian right?

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@logan I am a citizen of South Canada.

shitpost re: carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily How can we solve this with Blockchain? /j

shitpost re: shitpost re: carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@Seirdy introducing Blockplane™

It's like a normal airplane, but instead of jet engines, we mount a bunch of computers on the wings and mine cryptocurrencies to make their fans spin really fast and make jet engine noises.

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily the International Entirely face-to-face business meeting Task Force

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily I just went tl a conference with a 20h bus ride. It's very doable and even cheaper, we just need incentives to return to slow traveling AND make people aware lf the alternatives.

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily I think they should try using the internet tbh I've heard that works pretty well for communication and stuff

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily good to know they hired a consultancy, what would we do without hiring people to answer us questions

carbon emissions, and humans utterly failing at reducing them 

@emily

Even if "carbon offsets" weren't a particularly obvious scam… the computer industry's own predictions show that, within a few years, it expects to consume as much electricity as the entire world does today, much of that in datacenters. Where is that supposed to come from?

No, energy and environment issues aren't even at the bottom of the agenda. They're off it entirely.

Weird performances like this are what you can expect.

@emily hmm, generally speaking: right. Still - myself being "old school" - I'm convinced that a fruitful discussion among a bigger group of participants - also from different cultures - does heavily benefit from personal attendance. Too often I see cases where people turn off the camera or can't use it, or lag doesn't let people jum"jump in" etc... I believe the project does make sense - maybe checking who should participate, or do we really needa discussion here and now etc... That'll help too!

@wolf meh. This is kind of another separate post, but... most/all of these things don't need to be verbal communication at all. An email works just fine, and often better. (They even already have mailing lists set up.)

This isn't heartfelt emotional communication, it's standards authorship. If body language and subtlety are a major part of it, you're doing it wrong.

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